Фанатские дискуссии с просторов интернета -3
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KuroiHato69
KuroiHato69
6 months ago
Excellent points Melanie! I have watched the series twice and a few pivotal scenes multiple times. Re-watching it makes you see the behaviours with more clarity. Especially seeing more into Jin Mi's manipulation tactics... One of the main things I noticed during the second viewing, in the scene right before she meets Run Yu, Moon Immortal is explaining what love is to her... He shows her a book with various 'positions' in it and she tosses it aside... She then asks if love between a man and woman can help with 'magical prowess'. When he says 'Yes" she is suddenly interested!
In the next scene she meets Run Yu. She commented that he looked lonely... Then gives him the string. So she learns right before about relations leading to more prowess and then seems interested in the first male she sees right afterwards.... At first I really thought it was an innocent gesture, but now after seeing the entire drama again I question how innocent it was. I am quite sure she studied more of Moon Immortal's collection over time while staying with Xu Feng.
I don't think people really understood how much it meant when Jin Mi mistook Run Yu for a fish, and called him 'Fish Fairy'. Remember later he tells Kuang Lu that all he wanted to be was a carp... He just wanted to be accepted and loved instead of mistreated and bullied... Jin Mi seeing him as a fish instead of what he was, a dragon, triggered something in the subconscious that made Run Yu feel he was being accepted, albeit in a twisted way, to what he wanted to be. He did not have his memories at that time but it had to have made him feel warm inside. Jin Mi never understood how much that affected him.
Another mistake Run Yu made was hiding that side of himself and, as far as we know, never telling her about his history. I would like to believe that 'maybe' if Jin Mi knew the damage of his youth she would have thought twice about hurting him as badly as she did... I really want to believe that....
And I agree with you Melanie that maybe saying a 'sexless marriage' is not the right term. I think Run Yu wanted to be with her. The night Run Yu made a move when they were in his room he would have been quite happy to take his brother's 'sloppy seconds'... ~cringe~ The reason I said that he was willing to be sexless is because during the confrontation after Sui He's visit he said Jin Mi did not even have to like him, she could hate him, as long as she did not leave him. Run Yu did not seem to be one that would rape (Was also VERY happy that the scene afterwards did not lead to that... It would have been so out of character...). He would have been patient and waited... Thousands of years if he had to until she eventually gave in to his advances or approached him herself. So you are correct that sexless is not what he would have wanted... But you cannot expect sex from someone that hates you....
Oh and I agree with you about the way Jin Mi paraded around Kuang Lu. I also felt that in a way she was gloating a bit in front of her. Remember her saying anyone can be the Heavenly Empress before the second wedding KNOWING that Kuang Lu did not even have a chance. I actually raised my eyebrow when she said that like, " WOW! Rub that salt in the wound a little harder will you?" Despite knowing how Kuang Lu felt, Jin Mi still stayed around, and she knew how much it hurt KL to see Run Yu giving his all for Jin Mi, but she did not care... Things like that are what turned me from liking Jin Mi...
But may I make a comment on that 'energy slap' that Run Yu gave Jin Mi. I felt so twistedly happy when he did that. (＾▽＾ (The hair flip was a nice touch! (ᗒᗊᗕb ) I know people are horrified by my reaction but I actually said, "FINALLY! I knew she was going to push him too far!!" So many thought that made him evil but I understood... How much can one take... And the main thing that I hated was that right before that she told him that he did not 'deserve to be loved'. (Going by the translation... If that is not the correct phrasing please let me know.) I feel like such a weirdo but I actually cried when she said that to him.... I NEVER cry on dramas but that made me fall to pieces...
After all that he had done, all that he sacrificed, what he had become... And all of it for her. That is the worst thing you can tell a victim of abuse and neglect... They already feel that they don't deserve to be loved, but for her to say that directly to him was too much... No one should ever hear that... And I know that she is supposed to be unaware of his history but it was still horrible for Jin Mi to say... After that I was like, "She can die now..." ( ≧∀≦ ) LOL
So glad to see that others did not see Jin Mi as the 'helpless victim'. She knew a lot of what she was doing... Unfortunately, the Heavenly Empress had a good eye but no one else did...
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Melanie
Melanie
6 months ago (edited)
Kuroi, I love these discussions! I feel like finally I have found some people who are like-minded.
Really?! You never felt the love between Jin Mi and Xu Feng? I didn't, either, not in the novel or in the drama! I thought I was weird, since people kept raving about this onscreen pair. In the novel, I was bewildered when Xu Feng suddenly started declaring his love for Jin Mi. The only reason I could come up with was that he was in lust with her beauty, which apparently was so peerless that women fell in love with her when she was disguised as a young male, and men salivated after her when she was back in her true form as a young woman. In the drama, the sсript tried to fix this oversight by sticking Jin Mi's mortal trial in the middle of the sequence of events, instead of having it occur AFTER Jin Mi and Xu Feng were already married. Supposedly, Jin Mi and Xu Feng's experiences in the mortal world and her cracked Passionless Pill bonded the two together. Upon her return to the Heaven Realm, she started having second thoughts about her engagement to Run Yu. The explanation was plausible, but like you, I just didn't FEEL the love between them. Personally, I thought Yang Zi and Deng Lun had more chemistry off screen in the behind the scene clips than in the actual drama. Like you said, it was probably because Deng Lun's character was not fleshed out enough.
In comparison, I completely understood why Run Yu fell in love with Jin Mi, because he was such a well developed character. (You could tell that the author Dian Xian loved Run Yu, as mentioned in the webcast with Luo Yunxi, since he had the greatest character development in the sсript. I heard that Dian Xian was consulted during the sсript writing process.)
Logically, I agree that Jin Mi should end up with Xu Feng. They are both selfish characters and care nothing about how their actions affect others. However, I just pity Run Yu so much that I wish Jin Mi had eventually learned to love him. Yes, she was toxic for him and she didn't deserve his devotion, but he would have been so happy had she reserved a small spot in her heart for him. By the end of the drama, he wasn't even asking for scraps of love from her. He just wanted her to stay by his side, even if she hated him. That was just so depressing. I honestly don't understand how she wasn't even moved just a bit. Most women would have melted into a puddle in the face of his undying devotion and steadfast love. When I saw Run Yu beg Jin Mi like that during the confrontation, clutching onto her as if his life revolved around her every breath, it just made me wish she would just give him a break and reciprocate just a little bit of that love. Maybe I'll find time to write a short fanfic with an altered ending, just so poor Run Yu could finally find happiness with his Mi Er.
By the way, I, too, was horrified by the ugly words Jin Mi had said to Run Yu during that big fight at the end. She blamed Run Yu for everything because she knew she could get away with it. He loved her too much to do anything to her. If she were honest with herself, it didn't take much for Run Yu to manipulate her into killing Xu Feng. She had already suspected Xu Feng of killing her father, even before Run Yu altered her dreams. Even if he hadn't tampered with her dreams, she might have ended up killing Xu Feng anyway, as the suspicion festered in her mind over her three years of mourning. And yes, she indeed said he didn't deserve to be loved! It was very mean of her, especially after he had given her half of his cultivation and hence shortened his own lifespan. No matter what manipulation he had done prior, this sacrifice should have at least earned him a thank you!
Run Yu's "energy slap" shocked me so much that I gasped when I was watching that scene. That entire scene where he dragged her into the chamber and then threw onto the bed shocked me, actually. He had always been so patient and gentle with her that I wasn't expecting this domineering Run Yu. But as the shock faded away, I started to laugh and thought, "Wow, lady, you were asking for that." Haha. I think Jin Mi was quite flabbergasted and shocked herself. I don't think Run Yu had ever shown this side of himself to her and she didn't know how to handle it. What did you think about how he gently lifted her legs onto the bed after he knocked her out? I thought it was hilarious. It was as if Run Yu was at the end of his patience with her obstinate attitude and just had to shut her up. WIth her passed out and no longer arguing with him, he could finally return back to his civil, gentlemanly style again.
Poor Kuang Lu. I don't know why she insisted on hanging around Run Yu when she knew he will never look at her romantically. (Even Luo Yunxi confirmed this fact during his webcast.) Jin Mi even gave Run Yu the thumbs up to take her as his concubine, and yet, he turned her offer down flat. Kuang Lu heard it herself when she was eavesdropping outside. I think if Jin Mi did marry Run Yu, he would have eventually relocated Kuang Lu, despite her objections. He was too desperately in love with Jin Mi to do anything to give Jin Mi a reason to leave him. Kuang Lu was a loyal and capable subordinate, but in Run Yu's eyes, nothing and nobody could compare to Jin Mi in importance. Kuang Lu should just move on. If Liao Yuan Jun (Xu Feng's loyal guard) had lived, he would have been a good match for Kuang Lu.
After reading your analysis of Jin Mi and Run Yu's first meeting, I went back and watched that scene with fresh eyes. With your explanation, it's incredible how it all made sense about why she would randomly give him a red silk string. She was probably testing out her ability to reel a guy in with a few smiles. This made me think of her words to her son at the end of the drama. She said she had easily fished out Xu Feng with a straight fishing hook, because he wanted to be caught so badly. Now thinking of those words, I think Jin Mi indeed knew exactly what she was doing this entire time with Xu Feng and Run Yu. Some viewers thought Jin Mi was simple and dumb. Boy, was she far from simple and dumb!
At the very end of the drama, Jin Mi said that there were two men in her heart, one by her side and one far away. She was obviously referring to Xu Feng and Run Yu, respectively. Those words made me wonder if Jin Mi did have some romantic feelings for Run Yu. Had Xu Feng remained dead, I think she would have eventually learned to love Run Yu a little bit more each day, until those days turned into a lifetime of love, just as Run Yu had hoped for.
Could someone explain the ending to me? Jin Mi was mortal, but Xu Feng was immortal and together they had a half mortal-half immortal son? So Jin Mi would grow old and die eventually, leaving Xu Feng as a single parent? But if she was a mortal, how come she seemed to remember Run Yu? It didn't make sense. I wished the drama (and novel) had ended with Jin Mi's death. It would have had a more memorable impact and would not seem as if the drama was catering to the fans and forcing a happy ending.
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Melanie
Melanie
6 months ago
By the way, in the novel, Jin Mi allowed Run Yu to passionately kiss her thoroughly during the scene when Run Yu had revealed his dragon tail to her the second time. However, in the drama, they removed the kiss and instead had Run Yu steal a chaste but heartbreaking kiss from Jin Mi while she was sleeping.
Funny that you should mention how Run Yu found comfort in Jin Mi mistaking him for a carp and calling him Little Fish Immortal. I find this whole fish-dragon concept very interesting in the story. In Chinese mythology, the dragon was a magical creature representing strength, intelligence, power, and auspiciousness. Chinese emperors were thought to be dragons. And yet, Run Yu, who was a true dragon, ironically longed to be a fish. He didn't want to be a flashy and conspicuous dragon soaring through the heavens; he just wanted to be an inconspicuous fish wading quietly through calm waters. He just wanted to fit in with the rest of the fish in that lake he spent his childhood in. Throughout the drama, he mentioned how he loved that Jin Mi never shunned his "ugly" appearance even after seeing his true dragon form. Such interesting choice of words! Run Yu was never described as ugly in the novel, nor was he ugly in the drama. And in his true dragon form, he was majestic, certainly not "ugly." These words really showed how emotionally damaged he was. Please, Jin Mi! Just give this poor guy a real hug. He needs one so badly but he only wants it from you, Jin Mi!
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KuroiHato69
KuroiHato69
6 months ago
Melanie I also am enjoying these discussions! I always value those that have opposing opinions because I can always learn something but let us be honest... Everyone loves to find others that share similar views. During the airing most people that I spoke with really made Jin Mi to be the helpless victim and Run Yu the evil person that would not let her love Xu Feng. I tried to see it that way but I just could not... I could only see Run Yu as the one that gave far too much and received so little in return.
And I agree that I also felt a lot more chemistry watching the outtakes and behind the scenes footage with Deng Lun and Yang Zi!!! They were playful and silly... Teasing each other... It looked like they were having so much fun on the set! I wish some of that had come across on screen. Odd thing is that in the behind the scenes clips I felt no real chemistry between Yang Zi and Luo Yunxi... But there weren't that many clips with them. I noticed that they focused more on him and Du Bella singing. But onscreen Luo and Yang had a beautiful tension that was hard to explain... I really would love to see them pair as the main OTP...
When Jin Mi said that there were 'two men in her heart' she was definitely referring to Xu Feng and Run Yu. I really think that she loved Run Yu but she could not fall in love with him.... There is a big difference... The problem was that she met Xu Feng first and I really believe that the first person that stirs feelings of love is always going to be special whether it is a good or bad relationship. Xu Feng was the first person to introduce her to a new world, the first attractive male that took interest in her, the first person to kiss her, etc. He stirred things in her that she never felt before.
So when Run Yu came along she was already attracted to Xu Feng. I think that no matter what poor Night Immortal did he could never stir the interest in her the way Xu Feng did. If she had met Run Yu without Xu Feng he may have been the one to stimulate those first interest and she would have pulled to him. Maybe if Xu Feng had backed off while she was still sorting her feelings she could have pulled more to Run Yu.
What irritated me about Xu Feng was he did not back off... I know the argument that some have made is "But he is in love!". He is also an Immortal and knows the rules of engagement and how things work in the Heavenly Realm. I refuse to believe that he is the son of the Emperor and does not know anything no matter how coddled or sheltered he was. I could have had more respect if he had backed down to give Run Yu time to get to know Jin Mi... And then if Run Yu went through with the takeover of the Heavenly Realm and assisting the murder of his brother I hate to say I may have supported Xu Feng more... But I could not because he had no respect for the alliances that could be formed through the marriage, the rules of the Heavenly Realm when it came to engagements and especially his disrespect for Run Yu. The idea that he did not care about Run Yu's feelings, when in reverse Run Yu immediately thought of Xu Feng's feelings, really set me in a wrong place with Xu Feng... That selfishness is why he definitely belonged with Jin Mi.
As for the energy slap scene, I was laughing so hard when Run Yu 'gently' lowered her down and lifted her feet placing them softly on the bed. No matter how nice a person is... No matter how soft they are in heart... Everyone has a breaking point... Run Yu IMO had snapped... That was the emotional cord and she tripped it! He had giving everything he could... She was not going to mess up all that he had fought for and all that he had waited so patiently for... And at that moment he was like, "WOMAN... Shut up! I have had enough of you!..." Not saying it was right... But I could understand... (^O^)
I saw that as the point where nothing mattered anymore to him except getting what he wanted... And what he wanted was Jin Mi... She was not going to leave him and that was it... Will comment more in the next post... Hope others are enjoying this discussion as well.. (^_^)
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Melanie
Melanie
6 months ago
Kuroi, I think you were probably hanging around forums populated by Deng Lun fans, and hence, a lot of the opinions were biased in his character Xu Feng's favor. If we set actor fangirling aside and merely make a list of pros and cons for both Run Yu and Xu Feng, I actually think Xu Feng would come out below Run Yu. Xu Feng gave people the initial impression of righteousness and benevolence. Plus, the celestials viewed him through rose-colored glasses, because he was the firstborn son of the reigning Heaven Empress. Of course, everything about him was wonderful, and even if he had a few flaws, people brushed those aside, because who dared question the integrity and virtue of the almighty and hugely popular Fire God? He had money, status, looks, the fancy palace filled with people who couldn't wait to kiss the ground he walked on. But if you looked more closely, Xu Feng was only righteous if it suited him. If it didn't suit him, he didn't hesitate to take what he wanted, no matter whom he had to step on, because by god, he had always gotten what he wanted! So why should a little thing like publicly stealing his brother's fiancee matter? In fact, his older brother should be GRATEFUL that he, the almighty and privileged Fire God, even considered Ren Yu's fiancee worthy and beautiful enough to steal. Such entitled characters who hide behind a veil of generosity and virtue just bother me. I sound bitter, right? Like I said, I loved Xu Feng in the drama initially. Then he had to go and disregard propriety and basic respect for his older brother in trying to take what was not his to take. From then on, his character slipped lower and lower until he could no longer save himself.
I agree that first loves are forever memorable. However, I don't think they are necessarily the correct or best choice when it comes to choosing a lifetime partner. Oftentimes, first loves exist during a time of innocence, at that brink of adulthood when the world is carefree and full of hope. When maturity and reality set in, the rosiness fades and someone who had once been so compatible no longer is the right person to accompany us on life's path into the future. Hence, when other choices appear, we should keep an open mind. In Xu Feng, Run Yu, and Jin Mi's case, I am not saying that Run Yu is the better lifetime partner for Jin Mi, but I am saying he is the more mature and calmer one of the two men. Xu Feng is a hot flickering flame, dangerous and yet so hypnotizing (at least in the novel version), whereas Run Yu is a slow-flowing but deep river, steadily and dependably moving along with just enough ripples to be interesting but not so many to disrupt the tranquility. Brash and fiercely passionate are fun and exciting for a brief moment in time, but eventually, a steady but deep love will last forever and stand the test of time.
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